109 front brake tip.

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109 front brake tip.

Postby boguing » Sat 11 Aug 2012 11:53 pm

When using the genuine LR manual and Haynes to build up a right hand brake plate with new cylinders and pipes:-

1. Do use my brainwave. Take a new pipe from the union with the flexible to the BOTTOM cylinder, and the cupling solid up to the top cylinder with the bleed in it's other hole. The brake now bleeds beautifully easily.

A bonus for three years studying fluid dynamics.

2. When the manuals show the direction that the pistons should face, and there is no way on God's Earth that they will fit that way, don't waste a couple of hours wondering why.

A previous 'mechanic' really has fitted two left-handed backplates on your car.

And accept that, since you do have to go on holiday with the kids, that at least one twin trailing shoe brake is better than the 'no real shoes at all' is actually a bonus.

And that you will have to crush one of your lovely new pipes to death on order to get it around the steering link arm.

All to be corrected this week.
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Re: 109 front brake tip.

Postby onfire » Sun 12 Aug 2012 8:26 am

Sounds like a bit of a faff that you are suffering there ... got to love previous owners lol

Could you post a pic of your brake pic modification, sounds very useful!

Thanks, Tim
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Re: 109 front brake tip.

Postby boguing » Sun 12 Aug 2012 12:18 pm

I will when fit the correct back plate. Too ugly to allow you to see it as it is!

Simple description:-

Oil comes through flexi pipe, into copper down to the bottom cylinder, into next copper to the top cylinder and out of the bleed screw when open.

The beauty is that bleeding pushes the bubbles upwards, which is the way they want to go. The standard way fights that.
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Re: 109 front brake tip.

Postby eastway82 » Sun 12 Aug 2012 6:12 pm

I thought of doing that when I re-piped mine recently, but didn't in the end - wish I had now!
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Re: 109 front brake tip.

Postby boguing » Sun 12 Aug 2012 7:32 pm

Tell you the truth, I thought of it when I did the other side last year. Didn't have enough pipe though!

So I can tell you that there is a big difference. Almost no bubbles after two pedal pushes!
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Re: 109 front brake tip.

Postby rangerovering » Sun 12 Aug 2012 7:51 pm

Been done before

http://www.retroanaconda.com/landrover/ ... es-part-2/

Did it to mine when it was rebuilt. No problems at all, only fiddly bit is taking time with bending the pipe but its not too hard.
Steve

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Re: 109 front brake tip.

Postby jessejazza » Fri 17 Aug 2012 10:35 pm

eastway82 wrote:I thought of doing that when I re-piped mine recently, but didn't in the end - wish I had now!


Not a problem in fact as you can simply reverse bleed. Reverse bleeding is actually better... quicker particularly when you've renewed several parts of the system and thus full of air. Look on Youtube there are a number of clips - motorbikes are always reverse bled. Also saves using a one man bleed kit/easibleed or assistant. I've never used one in 25 years i just use a tray to catch fluid and pump.

As far as the mod goes one can get over the problem of tight turns by e.g. on n/s or LHS (in case someone is reading whose left hand drive) turn the backplate so that each slave cylinder is positioned at 0200 and 0800 - this is how most TLS setups are on cars. RHS would then be 1000 and 0400. Why landrover did what they did i don't know? I'll be doing this on my SWB and LWB - i'll see i may just leave them the factory way and reverse bleed.

SWB S3 were only SLS [think later ones 1980 onwards were?]. Apparently folk i've spoken to say that it's adequate for their towing needs and haven't considered the mod. I'm fitting a servo anyway as mine's for towing. Another alternative one can consider i believe is to fit the 109 backplate and thus have a 11 ins SLS on the front. SLS maybe better for even adjustment - how 11 ins SLS v TLS compare i don't know. I doubt if anyone has compared them - if a landrover didn't have a hydraulic handbrake one might be better off with SLS if needing to hold the weight of a trailer on a hill... as there's no braking on a TLS in reverse.

One thing to bear in mind when folk say "devil to bleed etc" - with steel pipes can be as the bore is much smaller than kunifer. All cars i've had i've put on kunifer and never had a problem. Don't use copper - it work hardens and also if one needs to replace a slave cylinder or adjuster the copper pipe just breaks as you undo the nut. For £15 for 25 ft buy kunifer and do the job once well and it'll last for life.
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Re: 109 front brake tip.

Postby boguing » Fri 17 Aug 2012 11:02 pm

All true if you have, or can make up the reverse bleeder. I probably will when I don't have a mate handy.

Piping it like that meant that I didn't bother with nipping up the bleed screw. Watching what came out was good enough to predict that the second pump would be liquid only.

Faffing with the one way valve things drove me to distraction.

Next weeks' job is to replace the wrong backplate so that I have leading shoes, and if I'm on my tod, I will report back on how I bled it single handed!
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Re: 109 front brake tip.

Postby jessejazza » Fri 17 Aug 2012 11:16 pm

boguing wrote:All true if you have, or can make up the reverse bleeder. I probably will when I don't have a mate handy.

Piping it like that meant that I didn't bother with nipping up the bleed screw. Watching what came out was good enough to predict that the second pump would be liquid only.

Faffing with the one way valve things drove me to distraction.

Next weeks' job is to replace the wrong backplate so that I have leading shoes, and if I'm on my tod, I will report back on how I bled it single handed!

Go to a vets and get a used large syringe from their waste bin - you need a 6mm-7mm nozzle one. Animal feed supplies should have them for <£5.

Brake bleeder kits i just couldn't be bothered with after watching my father use one quite often - rubber just goes hard. All i do is put a tray down under each nipple front and rear [or just move it each time but i'm lazy - i was grateful someone gave some old baking trays years ago when i had my first car... used for oil changes and brake bleeding]. Loosen each nipple and then tighten just to get the "feel right" and then open each in turn pumping pedal to let enough fluid out without air in. Feel on the pedal will change when the air is out i find or a 'hiss' (air in fluid) and then nought and you know the job's done. Tighten up and recheck all round.
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Re: 109 front brake tip.

Postby dieseldog » Sat 18 Aug 2012 10:36 pm

I did all my bleeding the wrong way then!!!!

I used a pump oil can used solely for brakes and clutches and a small length of black rubber pipe and simply pumped the fluid in through the bleed nipple, just need to be careful if yr pumping it a long way so the can does not run out on you!!! Worked very well on old S3 109 TLS after new slaves all round, new pipes right through, new "T's" and new master, found it easiest from rear to push fluid to end of it line catching excess in a jar, connect to "T"and flexy then push through on the other side up to master, then fronts individually to master then last front fill the reservoir and test, worked first time to my amazement!!! also worked nicely on fiestas with dodgy hydraulic clutches, whoores I tell ye!!!
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