Brexit and which Tory leader?

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Brexit and which Tory leader?

Postby chrissyboy » Sun 12 Nov 2017 10:07 am

My assessment:

All MP's are overpaid. Wanting to be an MP should immediately disqualify you for the job. Most of them are lawyers. All lawyers would sell their grandmothers.

Should we have Brexit? As a francophile it pains me to say this but yes. We need to take back firm control of our country. The first thing we need to do is bring in legislation so that we can see clearly who controls which companies. Vince Cable tried to bring this in but failed: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/21/vince-cable-public-register-company-ownership The European Court of Justice I regard as a good thing by the way. Our civil justice system is corrupt and has the same relationship to justice as the medical profession has to health. The independence of the judiciary needs to be abolished. Continental style, Roman Law would be an improvement.

So who should be PM?

We definitely do not want Corbyn and a load of left wing loonies. For one thing they are too easily controlled by the people who have real power and the Rockefeller controlled drug companies would be cracking open the champagne as Corbyn announces yet more spending on the NHS.

Theresa May. I have looked at her CV and she has done nothing really apart from be an MP and then a minister. She appears to have no strong beliefs and seems to be just an expert in climbing the greasy pole and what's more appears to have had a charisma by-pass.

Boris Johnson. Popular but chiefly because he is perceived as a bit of a buffoon who does not take himself too seriously. Has done nothing much in life apart from being a (not very good) journalist and MP. Was he effective as London's Mayor? I don't think so. He was good at the PR aspects (which I admit is a useful qualification) but not much else IMO. Has a dangerous tendency to shoot from the hip without doing his homework.

Jacob Rees-Mogg. "The honourable member for the 18th century" . Went to Eaton and Oxford (studied history). Has his own offshore, hedge fund, is rich and probably does not pay much in tax. So knows all about how the world really operates. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? Does he want to reform the rotten system? No evidence that he does. He appears to be very clever. Is a strict catholic. Does this mean that he has a strong moral compass? Or just indoctrinated from a young age? Does not appear to be a political opportunist. Was and remains a strong thatcherite. (A recommendation in my book). Thatcher wanted to turn us all into small business people. Does Rees-Mogg? If he does, that would be a yes vote for him from me. Would probably form an alliance with UKIP which would give the tories more leverage in Brexit negotiations.

For my money, the best PM would be Vince Cable. Shame that he is no longer an MP and is not a tory. Should be made a Lord. Can a Lord be made PM? I think so. Edited to add: He is in the Lords. Sir Vince Cable. Doh! (I follow French and American politics more than British politics which just seems to go round and round and never gets anywhere). Is Cable in favour of Brexit?
He appears to be more concerned with what the options and consequences are. (Good thing). Anyway, the tories would do well to make him a minister IMO to handle Brexit negotiations. He would do much better than David Davis who is a lightweight IMO.
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Re: Brexit and which Tory leader?

Postby blueovalcraig » Sun 12 Nov 2017 1:48 pm

To me it seems as though the EU are [swivel pins] themselves because the UK has the balls to leave and no matter what we offer them in the divorce settlement it doesn't suit. They are trying to make this as difficult as possible for us to leave. That's my opinion.
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Re: Brexit and which Tory leader?

Postby chrissyboy » Sun 12 Nov 2017 5:16 pm

blueovalcraig wrote:To me it seems as though the EU are [swivel pins] themselves because the UK has the balls to leave and no matter what we offer them in the divorce settlement it doesn't suit. They are trying to make this as difficult as possible for us to leave. That's my opinion.


It's a game of bluff and counter bluff. We need a tough negotiator. David Davies had a business career but this was in Tate & Lyle. Pretty hard to screw up in a sugar business. It's a drug people can't get enough of.

Are there any MP's smart enough and hard nosed enough to do the job? No.

Rees-Mogg seems to be the best option. I don't like the way he makes his money but he is probably pretty clever and is a proper Brexiteer. Nigel Farage should lead the negotiations. As an ex-MEP he should know the opposition inside out. What's more he will get right up their nose! He has a good connection to Trump as well so he can bluff them that we will do a trade deal with Trump if they don't play ball. (Maybe not so much of a bluff).

Cheers Chris
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Re: Brexit and which Tory leader?

Postby OG. » Tue 14 Nov 2017 10:44 am

Brexit is the biggest political blunder this century.
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Re: Brexit and which Tory leader?

Postby chrissyboy » Tue 14 Nov 2017 7:32 pm

OG. wrote:Brexit is the biggest political blunder this century.


Said a spokesperson for international corporatism.
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Re: Brexit and which Tory leader?

Postby OG. » Wed 15 Nov 2017 12:13 am

chrissyboy wrote:
OG. wrote:Brexit is the biggest political blunder this century.


Said a spokesperson for international corporatism.



Really?

It should never have come to a referendum as no one knew what they were voting for, the campaigns could have been better run by 5 year olds, its resulted in political instability ever since and has a good chance of screwing the economy if it all goes wrong (which Mrs Mayhem seems intent on doing).
Add to that its possibly the most divisive event in the country in the past 50 years (even more so that the Poll tax riots) and has generated cracks all through society.

Inflation is rising, interest rates have gone up and retail sales (a large contributor to government coffers in the form of VAT) are down. So who pays for all this? Not the corporations. Not the government. The average man in the street with a mortgage, a family and all the costs associated with that will end up paying. Not only that but we can all look forward to lack of pay rises and almost certainly a few mass redundancies as exports (which have failed to improve in spite of a falling pound which should help our exports) fall.
And this in spite of the fact we haven't actually left and have likely to see the worst that could be coming when Mrs Mayhem says 'No Deal' and bets everything on uncertain trade agreements which we cannot have before we actually leave (the UK has no legal standing to negotiate trade agreements as until it leaves its part of the EU and its trade agreements and has no standing in the WTO).

Like I said.... the whole referendum was poorly thought through and poorly executed and had insufficient thought given to how to implement a 'Leave' result.

Yep - its clearly a good thing.
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Re: Brexit and which Tory leader?

Postby OG. » Wed 15 Nov 2017 12:40 am

chrissyboy wrote: Nigel Farage should lead the negotiations.


Lets look at Nigel Farage....

He became an MEP because he could't get elected to Parliament.
Now as I understand it an MEP has a duty to the UK and the people who voted him into a position where he can speak on their behalf.
Yet....
He has the second worst attendance record in the European parliament, only better than someone with a terminal illness. He failed to vote in favour of tariffs to protect British Steel for which I am sure the good people of Port Talbot, Scunthorpe and Redcar will be eternally grateful. All the while he collected his nice little paypacket, claimed his expenses and had an affair with a woman in his office. A fantastic role model for politicians everywhere. Whats more he's still collecting his paypacket and expenses even though he now has nothing to do!
No he should be investigated and sacked just as anyone else who didn't do their job would be.

No. Farage is a self serving hypocrite.
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Re: Brexit and which Tory leader?

Postby chrissyboy » Wed 15 Nov 2017 8:04 am

OG. wrote:
chrissyboy wrote:
OG. wrote:Brexit is the biggest political blunder this century.


Said a spokesperson for international corporatism.



Really?

It should never have come to a referendum as no one knew what they were voting for, the campaigns could have been better run by 5 year olds, its resulted in political instability ever since and has a good chance of screwing the economy if it all goes wrong (which Mrs Mayhem seems intent on doing).
Add to that its possibly the most divisive event in the country in the past 50 years (even more so that the Poll tax riots) and has generated cracks all through society.


The cracks were already there and caused mainly because no-one is in charge. The sleazebags in government can't even bring in a sugar tax when even the scandal ridden French government of Sarkozy managed to bring one in 5 yeara ago!

Inflation is rising, interest rates have gone up and retail sales (a large contributor to government coffers in the form of VAT) are down. So who pays for all this? Not the corporations. Not the government. The average man in the street with a mortgage, a family and all the costs associated with that will end up paying. Not only that but we can all look forward to lack of pay rises and almost certainly a few mass redundancies as exports (which have failed to improve in spite of a falling pound which should help our exports) fall.
And this in spite of the fact we haven't actually left and have likely to see the worst that could be coming when Mrs Mayhem says 'No Deal' and bets everything on uncertain trade agreements which we cannot have before we actually leave (the UK has no legal standing to negotiate trade agreements as until it leaves its part of the EU and its trade agreements and has no standing in the WTO).

And we would be a lot worse off if the europhiles had had their way and we had joined the Euro!
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Re: Brexit and which Tory leader?

Postby chrissyboy » Wed 15 Nov 2017 8:09 am

OG. wrote:
chrissyboy wrote: Nigel Farage should lead the negotiations.


Lets look at Nigel Farage....

He became an MEP because he could't get elected to Parliament.
Now as I understand it an MEP has a duty to the UK and the people who voted him into a position where he can speak on their behalf.
Yet....
He has the second worst attendance record in the European parliament, only better than someone with a terminal illness. He failed to vote in favour of tariffs to protect British Steel for which I am sure the good people of Port Talbot, Scunthorpe and Redcar will be eternally grateful. All the while he collected his nice little paypacket, claimed his expenses and had an affair with a woman in his office. A fantastic role model for politicians everywhere. Whats more he's still collecting his paypacket and expenses even though he now has nothing to do!
No he should be investigated and sacked just as anyone else who didn't do their job would be.

No. Farage is a self serving hypocrite.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ffair.html


Yep. MEP's all have their snouts in the trough. (No irony intended). It's a gravy train designed to make the link between populations and their representatives as weak and tenuous as possible so that the banks and corporations can do exactly as they please.
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Re: Brexit and which Tory leader?

Postby OG. » Wed 15 Nov 2017 8:28 am

chrissyboy wrote: And we would be a lot worse off if the europhiles had had their way and we had joined the Euro!

So glad to see your crystal ball is working well. Can you tell me the winning lottery numbers?

Joining the Euro may or may not have been a bad move but we will (and can) never know as the decision was taken and that path followed. We can't go back and look at what would have happened had the other route been chosen.

Lets look at whats happened in the past year....

The Spanish, Greek and Italian economies (held up as examples of what a bad thing the EU is in the lead up to the referendum) have all grown more than the UK economy.
The EU is not necessarily the big bad wolf so often portrayed.

You have a real issue with corporations but like it or not they have sufficient power and influence (and always will) to be able to form government policy. They will always find a way to make profits.
The reason is simple.... governments rely on business to employ people and from that employment governments take tax (not nearly enough from the corporations but thats a different matter). If businesses opted to pull out of a country (and they can if there is somewhere else more attractive - something we may find with financial services and the EU) they can cause a lot of harm to an economy - something both governments and corporations know, Like it or not we need the corporations and they know it. The trick is to strike a balance.

As for our politicians... well currently I wouldn't vote for any of them (and didn't) as none of them are worth the time or effort to get to a polling station.
Frankly I doubt we would be any worse off if government was chosen from the population by a lottery system (something discussed in a novel by Arthur C Clarke and he may well have had a point!). At least it might reduce the level of self serving we see currently.
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